When I think of the Philippines I think of the Naval Base that was at Subic Bay (did I spell that right?). Did the removal of the Navy Base have any impact on the area?
Thanks very much for the reply about Subic Bay Naval Base. I served in the navy at PMR, Point Mugu, CA for four years, 1960 to 1964, with about a year TAD at Eniwetok in the Marshal Islands. The atoll was the target for ICBMs fired from Vandenburg AFB. Those missiles traveled about 5000 miles and landed usually within 240 feet of the target. I think that the technology was pretty good for that time.
The Atoll was taken by the Navy during the war and it took 3 days to defeat the entrenched Japanese forces. Eniwetok is located about 300 miles from Kwajalein.
I bet that was quite impressive tests at Eniwetok! That is incredible accuracy even nowadays for an ICBM that would have a minimum operational warhead yield of 300 kilotons. I think Eniwetok is still a test range for the Minuteman III.
When I was there the ICBMs were tested for accuracy. The nose comes were unarmed and landed in the lagoon area of the atoll and sank to about 250 feet. The Navy divers were not allowed to dive more than 180 feet so civilian divers were contracted to recover the cones. We had eleven military personnel on the island and about 220 civilians working for the contractor supporting the operation. When I arrived there I replaced an airman who worked in the hangar. Not much traffic on the runway but my job initially was filing flight reports for flights leaving. The main island of the atoll is 3 miles long and 1/4 mile wide. The highest point on the island is 16 feet above sea level. We used to go skin diving a lot. It was very interesting seeing all the sea creatures: such as, manta rays, sharks, giant turtles, etc.
I bet that was spectacular to be there for the testing. Thank you for sharing your experience with me.
Was that considered a hardship tour due to its remoteness? I realize that the American involvement in Vietnam was ramping up but when I was in remote locations were considered hardships even in a tropical location. Just curious about the Cold War experiences of all those who served.
Yes, Thomas. I think it was considered a hardship tour. It was isolated and no females. But they gave us about everything else we could want: the best chow in the Pacific; an Olympic size swimming pool; an outdoor movie; a pool hall with snooker tables; radio station on the armed forces network a bar; and my own jeep. I was ready to come home when my time was up. I wouldn’t trade the experience for anything.
I appreciate you sharing the experience. The idea of having your own government keep made me laugh. I also know the feeling of being a time you would never trade.
Yes, you spelled it correctly. I think of the same thing as it was such a key U.S. base during the Cold War and Vietnam War.
I think the withdrawal of the naval base was a strategic logistical loss for the U.S. Navy as it needed a new logistical, repair and maintenance hub but the loss of the naval base was at the same time as the navy was drastically reducing after the Cold War so it did not need as big of a Pacific hub. That softened the impact somewhat.
The loss of the naval base has made it easier for China to exploit its claims in the South China Sea as the US Navy has to come from Japan, Hawaii, or the West Coast to operate in the region. The loss of Cubi Point air station also hurt as well. So yes, it was a net benefit to China for its push into the South China Sea in conjunction with some short sighted and failed U.S. foreign and trade policies across multiple administrations.
That being said, after a 21 year presidency of Ferdinand Marcos, including a period of martial law the accusations of corruption, and being a stalwart American ally in what viewed by many in the Philippines of giving up sovereignty to the US, it was probably the correct political move for the Philippines to establish a post Marcos democratic system. That meant the U.S. footprint and what could be seen as the colonial presence needed to be removed. I think these steps is what has strengthened the Philippines political system and made it more stable (not perfect but solid). This cannot be understated on the impact of starving an insurgency of a message they could use to rally a population to their cause.
The Philippines leadership is now viewing that it does need the U.S. (along with other friendly regional countries) to help counter China. The U.S. views it as a bigger push to keep China out of the first island chain and Philippines as a need to get alliance partners to help protect and reclaim its EEZ from China. That is why more Philippine bases are jointly available for Japan (based on an RFA that Japan still needs to ratify) and the U.S. to operate. Kind of a quid pro quo.
The difference now are the bases are joint bases and not exclusive bases like Subic Bay Naval Base was so it is more of partnership than an exclusive basing right experienced in the past. The issue now is the U.S. and Japan are playing catch up to China in the region.
When I think of the Philippines I think of the Naval Base that was at Subic Bay (did I spell that right?). Did the removal of the Navy Base have any impact on the area?
Thanks very much for the reply about Subic Bay Naval Base. I served in the navy at PMR, Point Mugu, CA for four years, 1960 to 1964, with about a year TAD at Eniwetok in the Marshal Islands. The atoll was the target for ICBMs fired from Vandenburg AFB. Those missiles traveled about 5000 miles and landed usually within 240 feet of the target. I think that the technology was pretty good for that time.
The Atoll was taken by the Navy during the war and it took 3 days to defeat the entrenched Japanese forces. Eniwetok is located about 300 miles from Kwajalein.
I bet that was quite impressive tests at Eniwetok! That is incredible accuracy even nowadays for an ICBM that would have a minimum operational warhead yield of 300 kilotons. I think Eniwetok is still a test range for the Minuteman III.
When I was there the ICBMs were tested for accuracy. The nose comes were unarmed and landed in the lagoon area of the atoll and sank to about 250 feet. The Navy divers were not allowed to dive more than 180 feet so civilian divers were contracted to recover the cones. We had eleven military personnel on the island and about 220 civilians working for the contractor supporting the operation. When I arrived there I replaced an airman who worked in the hangar. Not much traffic on the runway but my job initially was filing flight reports for flights leaving. The main island of the atoll is 3 miles long and 1/4 mile wide. The highest point on the island is 16 feet above sea level. We used to go skin diving a lot. It was very interesting seeing all the sea creatures: such as, manta rays, sharks, giant turtles, etc.
I bet that was spectacular to be there for the testing. Thank you for sharing your experience with me.
Was that considered a hardship tour due to its remoteness? I realize that the American involvement in Vietnam was ramping up but when I was in remote locations were considered hardships even in a tropical location. Just curious about the Cold War experiences of all those who served.
Yes, Thomas. I think it was considered a hardship tour. It was isolated and no females. But they gave us about everything else we could want: the best chow in the Pacific; an Olympic size swimming pool; an outdoor movie; a pool hall with snooker tables; radio station on the armed forces network a bar; and my own jeep. I was ready to come home when my time was up. I wouldn’t trade the experience for anything.
I appreciate you sharing the experience. The idea of having your own government keep made me laugh. I also know the feeling of being a time you would never trade.
That is a really good question.
Yes, you spelled it correctly. I think of the same thing as it was such a key U.S. base during the Cold War and Vietnam War.
I think the withdrawal of the naval base was a strategic logistical loss for the U.S. Navy as it needed a new logistical, repair and maintenance hub but the loss of the naval base was at the same time as the navy was drastically reducing after the Cold War so it did not need as big of a Pacific hub. That softened the impact somewhat.
The loss of the naval base has made it easier for China to exploit its claims in the South China Sea as the US Navy has to come from Japan, Hawaii, or the West Coast to operate in the region. The loss of Cubi Point air station also hurt as well. So yes, it was a net benefit to China for its push into the South China Sea in conjunction with some short sighted and failed U.S. foreign and trade policies across multiple administrations.
That being said, after a 21 year presidency of Ferdinand Marcos, including a period of martial law the accusations of corruption, and being a stalwart American ally in what viewed by many in the Philippines of giving up sovereignty to the US, it was probably the correct political move for the Philippines to establish a post Marcos democratic system. That meant the U.S. footprint and what could be seen as the colonial presence needed to be removed. I think these steps is what has strengthened the Philippines political system and made it more stable (not perfect but solid). This cannot be understated on the impact of starving an insurgency of a message they could use to rally a population to their cause.
The Philippines leadership is now viewing that it does need the U.S. (along with other friendly regional countries) to help counter China. The U.S. views it as a bigger push to keep China out of the first island chain and Philippines as a need to get alliance partners to help protect and reclaim its EEZ from China. That is why more Philippine bases are jointly available for Japan (based on an RFA that Japan still needs to ratify) and the U.S. to operate. Kind of a quid pro quo.
The difference now are the bases are joint bases and not exclusive bases like Subic Bay Naval Base was so it is more of partnership than an exclusive basing right experienced in the past. The issue now is the U.S. and Japan are playing catch up to China in the region.